Huge Blow For Rishi Sunak As NHS Consultants Reject Government Pay Offer

NHS consultants have narrowly voted to reject the government’s latest pay offer.

In a huge blow to Rishi Sunak, the British Medical Association announced that 51% of its members who took part in a ballot had turned it down.

The BMA said: “The result demonstrates that consultants still have considerable concerns about the offer.”

Under the offer, the majority of consultants would have received a 12.8% rise, with others receiving a minimum of 6%.

“From the feedback members have given us it was clear that they thought it did not go far enough and as a result they did not have confidence that pay would be restored over future years,” the BMA said.

The government is already involved in a long-running dispute with junior doctors.

Shadow heath secretary Wes Streeting said: “Last week, Rishi Sunak was bragging that NHS doctors had accepted his pay offer. This vote shows he was trying to pull the wool over the public’s eyes.

“The NHS is in the second year of strikes. They have cost patients more than one million cancelled operations and appointments, and cost taxpayers £2 billion.

“It is long past time Rishi Sunak took personal responsibility and took charge of negotiations himself. The prime minister cannot continue to wash his hands of the crisis in the NHS.”

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NHS Strikes: Mishal Husain Roasts Steve Barclay By Noting Obvious Contradiction In Government’s Stance

BBC Radio 4′s Mishal Husain suggested the government has no choice but to resolve NHS strikes in a tense interview with the health secretary this morning.

The Today programme host pointed out that – just as junior doctors and consultants are about to go on strike simultaneously – the impact on NHS patients is getting worse.

Husain said the latest figures show the waiting lists to be at record levels at 7.6 million people waiting to start routine treatment.

But, she noted that prime minister Rishi Sunak made it one of his five pledges to voters to bring the number down.

The presenter asked: “How can you do that without resolving doctors’ strikes?”

Barclay replied: “There’s no question that the strikes are having an impact in terms of harming patients.

“Now, we have been making progress through our recovery plan, backed with £8 billion of investment.”

He said they had eliminated the two-year wait for treatment, and “virtually” eliminated the 18-month wait.

Husain pointed out: “The overall figure is at a record number!”

Barclay replied: “No, no, I’m accepting that the overall number on the waiting lists has increased.”

He went on to say that the government has boosted the NHS’s capacity with community diagnostic centres.

But Husain just asked again: “What’s your plan to end the doctors’ strike?”

The health secretary insisted that the government has offered a “fair and final” resolution, accepted the pay review bodies’ suggestion for a pay increase and implemented the BMA union’s “number one ask” to change pension and taxation.

“But the strikes are going on,” Husain cut in. “I think most people would probably look at this and think that your plan is basically based around hoping that the doctors give up. There’s absolutely no sign of that.

“How can you possibly meet your waiting list pledge, the PM’s waiting list pledge, without resolving this strike?”

Barclay said the government had also promised to bring down inflation, and that was another pledge Sunak made in January.

He also claimed that the strikers’ pay rise request was too high, and he had stay fair to other public sector workers.

Husain then tried once more, pointing out: “You’ve got a specific pledge on waiting lists to bring them down – and they’re going up.”

But, the health secretary just suggested once again the pay rise request from junior doctors is not “fair” for others.

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Fresh NHS Strikes On The Way As Nurses Reject Government Pay Offer

Nurses are to intensify their campaign of industrial action after rejecting the government’s latest pay offer.

The Royal College of Nursing announced that its members had voted by 54% to 46% against a deal to end the long-running dispute. Turnout was 61%.

A 48-hour strike by RCN members – including staff in emergency departments, intensive care units and cancer care units for the first time – will now take place from April 30 until May 2.

They have already taken part in six days of strikes since December, and a further ballot for more walkouts later in the year will now take place, the union said.

It is a huge blow for Rishi Sunak, who has made ending the wave of industrial disputes across the public sector one of his key priorities.

The RCN had recommended that its members accept the offer of a 5% pay rise this year and a one-off cash payment for last year.

In a letter to health secretary Steve Barclay, RCN general secretary Pat Cullen said: “What has been offered to date is simply not enough.

“The government needs to increase what has already been offered and we will be highly critical of any move to reduce it.”

She added: “Until there is a significantly improved offer, we are forced back to the picket line.

“Meetings alone are not sufficient to prevent strike action and I will require an improved offer as soon as possible. In February, you opened negotiations directly with me and I urge you to do the same now.

“After a historic vote to strike, our members expect a historic pay award.”

However, a separate ballot of nurses who are members of Unison, which closed this afternoon, overwhelmingly backed the government’s pay offer.

More than 150,000 nurses took part in the ballot – a 52% turnout – with 74% voting to accept the deal and 26% rejecting it.

Sara Gorton, Unison’s head of health, said: “Clearly health workers would have wanted more, but this was the best that could be achieved through negotiation.”

She added: ”“This vote might end Unison’s dispute, but it doesn’t solve the wider staffing emergency affecting every part of the NHS. Now, the government must work with unions to bring about a sustained programme of investment in the workforce.

“Lessons must also be learned. The mistakes of the past few months cannot be repeated. It’s time for a whole new approach to setting pay across the NHS.”

A key meeting of all six NHS unions is due to take place on May 2, at which it will be decided whether they should all accept the pay deal.

A government spokesperson said: “It is hugely disappointing that the Royal College of Nursing membership has rejected the pay deal recommended by their leadership.

“Following constructive discussions, all parties agreed this was a fair and generous offer which is demonstrated by Unison, representing the largest share of the NHS workforce, choosing to accept it.

“The fact that the Royal College of Nursing has announced an escalation in strike action, based on a vote from the minority of the nursing workforce, will be hugely concerning for patients.

“Hundreds of thousands of staff continue to vote in ballots for other unions over the next two weeks and we hope this generous offer secures their support.”

The RCN result came just hours after the Prospect union, which represents civil servants, announced that its members will strike on May 10 and June 7 after rejecting a fresh pay offer from ministers this morning.

It is also the final day of a four-day strike by junior doctors, who are demanding a 35% pay rise.

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‘A Nurse Is For Life Not Just For Covid’: Kay Burley Blasts Minister Over NHS Pay

Kay Burley clashed with a Tory minister as she urged the government to increase their pay offer to NHS workers.

The Sky News presenter told Robert Jenrick “a nurse if for life not just for Covid” as it was confirmed inflation his 10.5% last month – down from 10.7% in November.

Nurses are striking once again today and also announced earlier this week that they are to hold two more days of industrial action next month in their long-running dispute over pay.

Jenrick, the immigration minister, said “international factors are beginning to tentatively work in the right direction” to bring inflation down from its peak last autumn.

He added: “The worst thing that we could do domestically would be to significantly increase public sector pay and then entrench inflation in the British economy and get into a wage spiral.”

But Burley told him: “To that end you can take on the rail unions, you can take on the civil servants’ unions, but when it comes to taking on the nurses, you don’t have the support of the British people.

“I’ve seen the banners that say ‘a nurse is for life, not just for Covid’.”

Jenrick replied: “Well, we have great respect for nurses, of course we do.”

But Burley hit back: “Well give them more money then.”

The minister went on: “It’s not always as simple as that in life Kay, because what we have to judge is not only how we motivate and respect nurses – and there is a serious challenge with retention and recruitment within the NHS.

“We have to balance that, however, with general affordability to the tax payer, what can the NHS afford. Secondly, the point about inflation, which is so critical to everybody in this country, and thirdly how can we handle this in a sensible and appropriate manner.

“The way that’s done is through independent pay review bodies, and there was an independent pay review last year which concluded that curses should get the pay rise that they have.”

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Rishi Sunak Must ‘Step Up To The Plate’ To End Strikes, Says Union Chief

Rishi Sunak has been urged to “step up to the plate” by personally sitting down with union bosses to end the strikes.

TUC boss Paul Nowak has written to the prime minister demanding talks on how to find a solution to the industrial action crippling public services.

Nurses, railway workers and ambulance drivers are among those taking part in strike action throughout January in the ongoing disputes over pay and conditions.

Nowak said Sunak must “allow his ministers to get around the table with our unions reach a fair settlement on pay.”

He said striking workers “can’t afford another year of a real terms pay cut”.

“The reality is their mortgages are going up, their food bills are going up, their rents are going up – the only thing that isn’t going up is their wages,” he told Sky News.

“I think the government has got to take some responsibility now, step up to the plate, facilitate those talks and lets get a fair pay settlement for our NHS workers and public sector workers right across the piece.”

The TUC boss said Sunak had “forgotten some of those basic lessons” from the pandemic, when the TUC worked with him to develop the furlough scheme during lockdown.

He said: “I think he’s forgotten the value of sitting down and reaching an agreement and taking ideas from people outside his own cabinet.

“And frankly, I think it would be really good for Rishi Sunak to talk to our unions, but also to talk to some of those frontline parandemics, those physiotherapists, teachers in the classrooms, civil servants – people who for the last decade have been placed under real pressures on workload who feel they’re at breaking point.

“Let the prime minister talk to those workers and understand their concerns and their issues. I think that’s what any decent employer would do, and as someone responsible for the employment of millions of public sector workers, that’s exactly what the prime minister should do as well.”

Sunak will today set out his plans for the year ahead in a major speech in London.

The PM will unveil plans to make all pupils study some maths until they are 18, as well as explain how he plans to tackle the NHS crisis, illegal immigration and boost the economy.

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All The January 2023 Strikes Set To Hit As Industrial Action Continues

With Christmas done and dusted, many of us are now looking forward to New Year and the fresh start it brings.

However, strike action has only just begun, with more dates planned across different industries into January.

Bus drivers, ambulance drivers, rail staff and more are all set to take action in the coming week, with disruption expected as a result.

Here’s everything you need to know ahead of the strikes in January 2023.

Rail strikes

Strikes by the RMT and ASLEF trade unions will bring rail services to a halt across the UK from Tuesday January 3 to Saturday January 7.

RMT union members at Network Rail are striking once more over pay and conditions.

The train strikes will affect the following train operators:

  • LNER
  • Northern trains
  • Avanti West Coast
  • Southeastern
  • Cross Country
  • Chiltern Railways
  • Greater Anglia
  • Govia Thameslink (plus Gatwick Express)
  • London Underground
  • West Midlands Trains (plus London Northwestern Railway)
  • Great Western Railway
  • Transpennine Express

Mick Whelan, general secretary of ASLEF, explained the reasoning for the strike action: “We don’t want to go on strike but the companies have pushed us into this place. They have not offered our members at these companies a penny – and these are people who have not had an increase since April 2019.”

People are being advised to avoid travelling between January 3 – 7 if possible.

Highway workers strikes

If your plan to get around the railway strikes was to take to the roads, we’ve got some bad news.

National Highways traffic officers in the PCS union across the UK will strike on January 3 and 4.

The strike action will see control centre staff walk out and officers will normally deal with the aftermath of road accidents will also stop work on the two dates.

The PCS union says the walkout could cause delays to reopening carriageways and motorways affected by any accidents on the strike action dates.

Nurses

The Royal College of Nurses (RCN) has announced strike action on January 18 and 19 in England following previous action on December 15 and 20.

The RCN wants members to see a pay rise of 19%.

RCN general secretary and chief executive Pat Cullen said: “The government had the opportunity to end this dispute before Christmas but instead they have chosen to push nursing staff out into the cold again in January.

“I do not wish to prolong this dispute, but the Prime Minister has left us with no choice.”

Ambulance drivers

Some ambulance staff in England will take part in two strikes next month, on January 11 and 23.

Services in London, Yorkshire, the North West, North East and South West will be affected as union members campaign for pay rises that are above inflation rates.

The strikes will affect non-life threatening calls only but is likely to put even more pressure on emergency care.

Bus drivers

Meanwhile in London, Abellio bus drivers in south and west London will take action over eight days throughout January.

The strikes will take place on January 4, 5, 10, 12, 16, 19, 25 and 26.

Transport for London has urged Unite and the Abellio bus company to work together to avoid disruption, with some of the proposed strike dates clashing with RMT train strikes.

Teachers in Scotland

Two teachers’ strike days will take place in Scotland in January 2023.

Teachers will walkout on both January 10 and 11 after a 6.85% increase for the lowest paid was rejected.

Although the action is currently exclusive to Scotland, teaching unions in both England and Wales are balloting members over pay, which could mean strikes further south in the coming weeks.

RCN general secretary and chief executive Pat Cullen said: “The government had the opportunity to end this dispute before Christmas but instead they have chosen to push nursing staff out into the cold again in January.

“I do not wish to prolong this dispute, but the Prime Minister has left us with no choice.”

Ambulance drivers

Some ambulance staff in England will take part in two strikes next month, on January 11 and 23.

Services in London, Yorkshire, the North West, North East and South West will be affected as union members campaign for pay rises that are above inflation rates.

The strikes will affect non-life threatening calls only but is likely to put even more pressure on emergency care.

Bus drivers

Meanwhile in London, Abellio bus drivers in south and west London will take action over eight days throughout January.

The strikes will take place on January 4, 5, 10, 12, 16, 19, 25 and 26.

Transport for London has urged Unite and the Abellio bus company to work together to avoid disruption, with some of the proposed strike dates clashing with RMT train strikes.

Teachers in Scotland

Two teachers’ strike days will take place in Scotland in January 2023.

Teachers will walkout on both January 10 and 11 after a 6.85% increase for the lowest paid was rejected.

Although the action is currently exclusive to Scotland, teaching unions in both England and Wales are balloting members over pay, which could mean strikes further south in the coming weeks.

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Will Rishi Sunak Perform Yet Another U-Turn To End The Nurses’ Strike?

Rishi Sunak this week stopped being Britain’s shortest-serving prime minister.

After managing to survive 50 days in Number 10, he has surpassed Liz Truss’s ill-starred tenure as PM.

But during his brief time in charge, Sunak has managed to earn an unenviable reputation for being willing to completely change his position when the pressure’s on.

We’ve already seen two major U-turns – one on housebuilding targets and the other on onshore wind farms – brought on by the prospect of Tory backbench rebellions.

Now, it seems only a matter of time before he is forced into his biggest about-face yet as he tries to end nurses pay dispute which saw members of the Royal College of Nursing walk out on Thursday. A further 24-strike is due next week.

So far, ministers have stuck to the same line on nurses’ pay as they have on other public sector workers taking part in the growing winter of discontent – that the government has accepted the recommendations of the various pay review bodies and won’t be re-visiting the matter.

But with trade unions unwilling to accept the real-terms pay cuts on offer, the pressure is building on the PM – not least from senior Tories – to relent.

Former Conservative chairman Jake Berry – a man with an axe to grind after being sacked by Sunak – spoke for many of his colleagues when he said the current offer on the table to nurses was “too low” and that compromise was needed.

“There is no do-nothing option except continued strikes,” he said yesterday.

“And I just think the cancellation of probably literally hundreds of thousands of non-urgent appointments has huge repercussions for an already-overstretched health service.

“That’s why I think it’s reasonable to say in this regard, it is time for pragmatism and talking between the government and the unions. I don’t see why that is controversial.

“Machismo and sort of chest beating and ‘we’ll take the unions on’ doesn’t work. You only get these things sorted out by talking.”

Dr Dan Poulter – a GP – and former cabinet minister Robert Buckland are also among a growing band of Tory MPs who believe compromise is urgently needed to bring an end to the dispute.

Public support for the nurses’ fight remains strong, meaning the political damage for the government grows whenever they take to the picket line.

Staff Nurse Courtney Watson joins members of the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) on the picket line outside Mater Infirmorum Hospital in Belfast as nurses in England, Wales and Northern Ireland take industrial action over pay. Picture date: Thursday December 15, 2022.
Staff Nurse Courtney Watson joins members of the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) on the picket line outside Mater Infirmorum Hospital in Belfast as nurses in England, Wales and Northern Ireland take industrial action over pay. Picture date: Thursday December 15, 2022.

Liam McBurney via PA Wire/PA Images

A veteran Tory MP told HuffPost UK: “I’ve been around long enough to know that there will invariably be a compromise found.”

Labour can hardly believe their luck. A party source told HuffPost UK: “I just don’t understand what they are thinking – do they think ‘crush the nurses’ is a viable strategy for the country or a good look? He’s just going to end up looking weak again.

“It’s notable that the Tories who think strategically can see a mile off this isn’t going to work.

“It’s absolutely bonkers they didn’t get that strike called off and instead let us use PMQs to frame all the strike action around it. It’s not just that Sunak has no vision – there’s no political strategy either.”

For now, though, the prime minister appears to be digging in.

Speaking in Belfast yesterday, he said: “We want to be fair, reasonable and constructive, that’s why we accepted the recommendations of an independent pay body about what fair pay would be.”

But there is a growing sense in Westminster that a government climbdown is inevitable.

And while that may well pave the way for a resolution to the nurses’ dispute, it will be yet another blow to Sunak’s faltering political reputation.

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Liz Truss Versus The Trade Unions: The Next Front In The Culture Wars?

Much has been made of Liz Truss’s attempts to emulate her icon, Margaret Thatcher, in her quest to become Tory leader and prime minister.

While she has sought to distance herself from the comparison, there is one thing she does share with her late predecessor: she has taken over as prime minister at a time when Britain’s economy is crumbling and its workforce is more mutinous than ever.

Angered by an inflation rate of 9.9 per cent that is outstripping stagnant wages, trade unions are organising en masse for industrial action that threatens to take Britain back to the turmoil of the 1970s.

One by one, they are rejecting the government’s single-digit pay offers and organising strike ballots. Collectively, they have said “enough is enough”.

Their resistance sets the scene for a new front in the divisive culture wars in which unions fear Truss will attempt to “crush the enemy within” by bringing in a series of measures that will hamper their ability to take industrial action.

Kwasi Kwarteng, Truss’s new chancellor, confirmed this week the government will bring forward legislation making it harder to go on strike.

“What we have is a government that seems to be struggling to come up with answers to the cost of living crisis,” says Tim Sharp, senior policy officer for employment rights at the Trades Union Congress (TUC).

“It appears that some in government would like to distract from that with a culture war against the unions.

“We had a leadership contest in which the candidates had to appeal to some of their more ideological members and that’s why we’ve seen the pledges in terms of anti-union action.”

Which unions are striking?

The RMT and Aslef rail unions, the Communication Workers Union (CWU) representing Royal Mail workers and barristers under the Criminal Bar Association (CBA) have all been on strike over pay and working conditions in recent weeks.

Dockhands represented by Unite have also been striking at the port of Felixstowe and are set to do so again in September, in the shadow of the Labour Party conference in Liverpool.

The National Education Union (NEU), the largest education union in the UK that represents teachers, lecturers and support staff, will open its online preliminary ballot for strike on September 24, before a formal ballot takes place in November.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch has said Britain could be brought to a standstill by a wave of strikes hitting “every sector of the economy”.
RMT general secretary Mick Lynch has said Britain could be brought to a standstill by a wave of strikes hitting “every sector of the economy”.

Ian Forsyth via Getty Images

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN), whose members include half a million nurses, midwives, nursing support workers and students, opened a postal ballot for strike action on September 15 that will close on October 13.

If enough members vote for industrial action, it will be the first time in the union’s history that its members in England and Wales go on strike.

The British Medical Association (BMA) has also said it will ballot junior doctor members in England for industrial action if the government fails to restore pay to 2008/09 levels by the end of this month.

The public needs to be prepared for the havoc such strikes could wreak on their daily lives.

“Every school in the country is going to be shut bringing total chaos,” one union source says. “Tens of thousands of hospital appointments are going to be cancelled.

“This is the price you pay for a Tory government that has slashed public services.”

The tools in Truss’s arsenal

If Truss is looking at how she might limit trade union rights, David Cameron’s Trade Union Act of 2016 might provide some inspiration.

Billed at the time as some of the most “regressive” anti-union legislation in the world, the law brought in measures such as higher thresholds for success in industrial ballots.

It also increased the notice period unions must give to employers ahead of any strike action from one week to two weeks.

In an ordinary union, there must be a 50 per cent turnout for an industrial ballot in order for their results to be legally valid. A simple majority has to vote in favour of strike action for it to go ahead.

But for workers who deliver “important” public services, not only does the 50 per cent turnout have to be met, the support of 40 per cent of all eligible members must also be attained for the strike action to be legal.

Unions fear that Truss could use a new law to bring in thresholds that are so high that they could make strikes nigh on impossible.

They anticipate that she could also widen the definition of what counts as a public service to include bus drivers and tube drivers, for example, to apply the 40 per cent threshold.

“If she goes in this direction there will be new laws — that’s a fact,” says one union source.

“She’s got a parliamentary majority. You’re not going to stop her legislating.

“If the Tories use an act of parliament to redefine what defines a public service, at a stroke they would cover huge sections of private industry.

“They can make it even more difficult for unions to get through the thresholds. These laws are already the most stringent of anywhere in Europe.”

A new law to guarantee a minimum level of service on “vital national infrastructure” was a key pledge to come out of the leadership campaign, as was a tax on the strike benefit members receive when they don’t go into work.

Truss also suggested brining in a cooling-off period so that unions can no longer strike as many times as they like in the six-month period after a ballot.

Tim Sharp says the effect of Truss’s plans could be that they make union disputes harder to resolve.

“The industrial action we’ve had has been grassroots driven,” he tells HuffPost UK.

“They risk making industrial disputes harder to resolve. You often see a day of strikes here and there, but if a union is being limited in how often it can take industrial action, then what you could see is longer periods of strike action.”

Another union insider agrees: “If Truss thinks she’s going to shut down the unions she’s got another thing coming.

“She will just create so much anger it increases turnout in the many union ballots currently going on.”

Workers of the world unite

Criminal barristers are on strike over pay for legal aid work.
Criminal barristers are on strike over pay for legal aid work.

Mike Kemp via Getty Images

In the unions, Truss has found herself an opponent that will not go down without a fight.

Sharon Graham, the boss of the Unite union, tells HuffPost UK there will be a “prolonged and fierce resistance to Truss attacking workers’ rights”.

“If Liz Truss thinks we have just been sitting waiting for her anti-trade union laws, she’s wrong,” she says.

“We’re ready. If she puts up the thresholds for legal strike action we’ll employ more organisers to get the vote out. If she taxes strike pay, we’ll take more money from the strike fund to hold the real value of strike pay.

“And if she tries to gag trade unions we’ll find ways to speak out more and more.”

And in a swipe at Truss’s own result in the Tory leadership contest Graham says: “Right now if workers plan strike action 50 per of those who can vote in the strike ballot must vote for the strike to be legal.

“It’s a bit rich for Liz Truss to be upping the figures in new laws. In her election for leader she only got 47 per cent of Tory members who were entitled to vote.

“If the Tory Party was bound by the same restraints as the unions Truss would not have made the grade for leader. You could not make it up.”

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said workers could be forced to take “unlawful industrial action” if the government makes it impossible for legal strikes to take place.

He told Sky News: “We’re fast getting to a situation where we’re going to have laws that are as oppressive as those that exist in Russia and China and back in Poland before Solidarnosc came along and took unlawful industrial action to break free of the oppression of the old Soviet bloc an the communist regime.”

The TUC is already preparing its campaign to appeal to the public when the battle begins.

National rallies will take place in Westminster and there will be a tour of town halls, a national day of action and a lobby of parliament.

The message members have been told to stick to is that Truss plans’ “threaten the right to strike” and are an attempt to distract the public from the burgeoning cost of living crisis.

And crucially, there is the edict to “stay calm: they want us to blow our tops, don’t give them the satisfaction”.

Failing that, the government could find itself in court.

In a sign of the resistance to come, 11 trade unions launched legal action against the government on Tuesday over government plans to replace striking workers with agency staff.

They claim the government has broken the Employment Agencies Act 1973 by failing to consult them on the changes and is violating “fundamental trade union rights” protected by Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

No pain, no gain

For Truss, a protracted battle with the unions could help her forge her reputation with voters, for whom she remains largely unknown.

According to pollster James Johnson, the co- founder of JL Partners, Truss could win plaudits from the public from sticking to what she thinks is right.

“I don’t think it’s a politically calculated move, I think it comes from a genuine frustration within government,” he says.

“What pays off for Liz Truss is that if they are pursuing what they think is right, even if it doesn’t go down well, that may have a long term effect in popularity in showing that there is a steeliness and sense of inner conviction — and that is what the public do crave.”

By taking such a firm line, she also sets a contrast in voters’ minds between herself and Labour leader Keir Starmer, whom the public still perceive as weak on strikes.

“There are negative views about Starmer because of his position on strike — at first he seemed to back people going out, then he didn’t,” Johnson explains.

“It reinforces that view that he doesn’t stand for anything, and that is fine if the other leading party is seen like that — but if we get that contrast developing between Truss and Starmer, then he could be in trouble.”

The jury is out on whether Truss can recapture the status of a conviction politician — or whether the turmoil that ensues is so great that it would cancel any benefit that came from taking a stand.

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